Comments on: An argument against Shyftr and communities built around full-text RSS feeds http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/ Web producer. Writer. Online Media Cultist. Sat, 06 Sep 2008 21:07:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1 By: Deep Jive Interests » Fine, I’ll Say It: Shyftr Crosses The Line http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3085 Deep Jive Interests » Fine, I’ll Say It: Shyftr Crosses The Line Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:09:14 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3085 [...] Eric Berlin, who’s initial Tweets prompted this post chimes in and, amongst other cogent arguments, echoes Mat Ingram’s sentiments: building a business [...] […] Eric Berlin, who’s initial Tweets prompted this post chimes in and, amongst other cogent arguments, echoes Mat Ingram’s sentiments: building a business […]

]]> By: Shyftr: Feed theft or social news reader? - mathewingram.com/work http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3086 Shyftr: Feed theft or social news reader? - mathewingram.com/work Sat, 12 Apr 2008 17:40:00 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3086 [...] no control over their content any more and should get used to it. Eric Berlin’s thoughts are here. And Frederic from The Last Podcast says he’s cool with that, and that pushing out an RSS [...] […] no control over their content any more and should get used to it. Eric Berlin’s thoughts are here. And Frederic from The Last Podcast says he’s cool with that, and that pushing out an RSS […]

]]> By: Keith Dahlby http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3105 Keith Dahlby Sun, 13 Apr 2008 22:52:45 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3105 "Publishers lose control over their audience ... What Shyftr does is wrong as it removes any need at all to go anywhere except for Shyftr" Unless of course Shyftr users wants to have conversations with non-Shyftr users. Maybe feedback for the author, for example? Or follow-up posts on their own blogs? Or discussions with the specific audiences provided by mailing lists, newsgroups, forums, etc? "Publishers have no opportunity to engage the audience ... Most bloggers write with the intent to ...moderate follow-up discussions... The way that Shyftr is set up does not allow this to happen." How does Digg allow you to moderate follow-up discussions? How does Google Reader's "Email This" function allow you to moderate follow-up discussion I have via e-mail? How does Twitter allow you to moderate follow-up discussion? I find this particularly ironic given your "Social bookmark this page" which offers countless avenues to continue the discussion anywhere but here. But "it’s all promotion for the original story and the source website in essence"! Until they read the article here and take their thoughts elsewhere anyway... "The difference between Shyftr and full text blog RSS feeds ... Publishers can advertise on their RSS feed for one, readers can click back to the original story to comment, and importantly publishers can track RSS feed subscribers and count those numbers against their overall 'reach' in the blogosphere and on the Internet." The same argument could be made about any feed reader. Since Shyftr rendered content from RSS, any publisher-provided advertisements were probably still shown (didn't check this before their recent update). The title of every Shyftr story was a link to the original. And if readership statistics are the problem, then Shyftr could implement something like Google did: http://googlereader.blogspot.com/2007/02/one-subscriber-two-subscribers-three.html So can someone please help me to understand why Shyftr deserves special consideration when its various "sins" have been committed by existing products/services independently for years? Is the blogosphere really so naive as to think the discussions they start have ever actually belonged to them? If so, why is there a trackback mechanism - shouldn't comments on a post be in the post's comments, not someone else'e blog? Why am I even posting here? After all, I heard about this from Scoble... “Publishers lose control over their audience … What Shyftr does is wrong as it removes any need at all to go anywhere except for Shyftr”
Unless of course Shyftr users wants to have conversations with non-Shyftr users. Maybe feedback for the author, for example? Or follow-up posts on their own blogs? Or discussions with the specific audiences provided by mailing lists, newsgroups, forums, etc?

“Publishers have no opportunity to engage the audience … Most bloggers write with the intent to …moderate follow-up discussions… The way that Shyftr is set up does not allow this to happen.”
How does Digg allow you to moderate follow-up discussions? How does Google Reader’s “Email This” function allow you to moderate follow-up discussion I have via e-mail? How does Twitter allow you to moderate follow-up discussion?

I find this particularly ironic given your “Social bookmark this page” which offers countless avenues to continue the discussion anywhere but here. But “it’s all promotion for the original story and the source website in essence”! Until they read the article here and take their thoughts elsewhere anyway…

“The difference between Shyftr and full text blog RSS feeds … Publishers can advertise on their RSS feed for one, readers can click back to the original story to comment, and importantly publishers can track RSS feed subscribers and count those numbers against their overall ‘reach’ in the blogosphere and on the Internet.”
The same argument could be made about any feed reader. Since Shyftr rendered content from RSS, any publisher-provided advertisements were probably still shown (didn’t check this before their recent update). The title of every Shyftr story was a link to the original. And if readership statistics are the problem, then Shyftr could implement something like Google did: http://googlereader.blogspot.com/2007/02/one-subscriber-two-subscribers-three.html

So can someone please help me to understand why Shyftr deserves special consideration when its various “sins” have been committed by existing products/services independently for years? Is the blogosphere really so naive as to think the discussions they start have ever actually belonged to them? If so, why is there a trackback mechanism - shouldn’t comments on a post be in the post’s comments, not someone else’e blog? Why am I even posting here? After all, I heard about this from Scoble…

]]> By: WinExtra » What is a blogger worth - what are my words worth? http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3106 WinExtra » What is a blogger worth - what are my words worth? Sun, 13 Apr 2008 23:51:04 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3106 [...] them on the Shyftr site and letting people comment within Shyftr on those posts. There were a lot of really good posts from either side of the issue of whether what Shyftr was doing was right or wrong. I [...] […] them on the Shyftr site and letting people comment within Shyftr on those posts. There were a lot of really good posts from either side of the issue of whether what Shyftr was doing was right or wrong. I […]

]]> By: Bitchmeme Recap: What Happens on Shyftr, Stays on Shyftr « I’m Not Actually a Geek http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3108 Bitchmeme Recap: What Happens on Shyftr, Stays on Shyftr « I’m Not Actually a Geek Mon, 14 Apr 2008 07:02:14 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3108 [...] spark: Louis Gray (who else?) wrote about Eric Berlin’s concern over the comments that had accrued on Shyftr, not his own site. A legitimate beef, and one that [...] […] spark: Louis Gray (who else?) wrote about Eric Berlin’s concern over the comments that had accrued on Shyftr, not his own site. A legitimate beef, and one that […]

]]> By: The Shyftr Saga : The Blog Herald http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3118 The Shyftr Saga : The Blog Herald Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:58:17 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3118 [...] One of those who disagreed was copyright attorney Evan D. Brown who, in his post on the topic, cited both a 1990 case that dealt with the kinds of issues an implied license was designed for and and an earlier post by blogger Eric Berlin. [...] […] One of those who disagreed was copyright attorney Evan D. Brown who, in his post on the topic, cited both a 1990 case that dealt with the kinds of issues an implied license was designed for and and an earlier post by blogger Eric Berlin. […]

]]> By: Eric Berlin http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3119 Eric Berlin Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:58:57 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3119 Keith, you bring up some interesting points but I circle back to the crucial differentiator for Shyftr: they pulled full text feeds and allowed commenting around that story without the involvement of the author. In effect Shyftr is acting like <b>the</b> publisher or an authorized republisher of original content. That makes it very different from simply displaying the title, link, and excerpt. Now, I agree, services like Digg and even Friendfeed are still strange to me: aggregators becoming places of community, and it raises larger questions of where "the conversations belong" and "who owns the conversations" and all that. But in some ways those conversations pull away from the basic fact that publishers deserve to be able to hold some ownership over the intellectual property they publish to their own online outlet. Keith, you bring up some interesting points but I circle back to the crucial differentiator for Shyftr: they pulled full text feeds and allowed commenting around that story without the involvement of the author. In effect Shyftr is acting like the publisher or an authorized republisher of original content. That makes it very different from simply displaying the title, link, and excerpt.

Now, I agree, services like Digg and even Friendfeed are still strange to me: aggregators becoming places of community, and it raises larger questions of where “the conversations belong” and “who owns the conversations” and all that. But in some ways those conversations pull away from the basic fact that publishers deserve to be able to hold some ownership over the intellectual property they publish to their own online outlet.

]]> By: blogs are old skool? http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3128 blogs are old skool? Tue, 15 Apr 2008 21:42:04 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3128 [...] Berlin, the Online Media Cultist, has some interesting things to say about Shyftr and its [...] […] Berlin, the Online Media Cultist, has some interesting things to say about Shyftr and its […]

]]> By: Fragmented Conversations and Blogging - PlagiarismToday http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3133 Fragmented Conversations and Blogging - PlagiarismToday Wed, 16 Apr 2008 19:04:47 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3133 [...] including Eric Berlin, were very opposed to this while still others, including Louis Gray, saw this as a natural [...] […] including Eric Berlin, were very opposed to this while still others, including Louis Gray, saw this as a natural […]

]]> By: Uncontrolled Vocabulary #38 - Sandy Berman gone bad | Uncontrolled Vocabulary http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3147 Uncontrolled Vocabulary #38 - Sandy Berman gone bad | Uncontrolled Vocabulary Thu, 17 Apr 2008 12:31:24 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3147 [...] Blogs May Be Rendered Obsolete by New Technology (Chronicle of Higher Education) An argument against Shyftr and communities built around full-text RSS feeds (Online Media [...] […] Blogs May Be Rendered Obsolete by New Technology (Chronicle of Higher Education) An argument against Shyftr and communities built around full-text RSS feeds (Online Media […]

]]> By: ReadBurner impressively creates community around Google Reader shared items ¦ Online Media Cultist http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3193 ReadBurner impressively creates community around Google Reader shared items ¦ Online Media Cultist Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:26:15 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3193 [...] An argument against Shyftr and communities built around full-text RSS feeds [...] […] An argument against Shyftr and communities built around full-text RSS feeds […]

]]> By: Bridging the Blogging 1.0 and Blogging 2.0 divide ¦ Online Media Cultist http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3879 Bridging the Blogging 1.0 and Blogging 2.0 divide ¦ Online Media Cultist Mon, 19 May 2008 14:28:59 +0000 http://onlinemediacultist.com/2008/04/12/an-argument-against-shyftr-and-communities-built-around-full-text-rss-feeds/#comment-3879 [...] But that self-interest should drive participation in these new social media platforms. As I’ve written in the past, that’s why I draw the line on services like Shyftr, which pull full text feeds from [...] […] But that self-interest should drive participation in these new social media platforms. As I’ve written in the past, that’s why I draw the line on services like Shyftr, which pull full text feeds from […]

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